Tuesday, October 8, 2013

How loyal must you be when you believe your Commanding Officer is a tyrant? No loyalty DOWN from the CO means no loyalty UP from the deckplates.

Sailors in the islands are getting mighty restless.  The fabric is wearing much too thin.  Something has to give.

While the fabric that has held society together has worn thinner in our modern age, it is still loyalty that lends the cloth its strength. It is loyalty that keeps the world functioning. We could not conduct business transactions or personal relationships without it. Loyalty is the idea that we are who we say we are and we will do what we say we will do. It is the hope that the integrity with which we initially encountered someone will endure indefinitely.

It’s also what keeps us unified. We live out our lives as part of agreed upon norms that allow us to operate from day to day. We need to know who we can count on. We all understand that ideally, friends will have your back, lovers will remain true, and businesses will not cheat you out of your money. When someone is disloyal, they break from these expectations and weaken the trust that holds us together.

From The Philosophy of Loyalty by Josiah Royce
Harvard Lecture Series 1908

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

CO has broken his trust with the wardroom. We continue to work to support him through the XO. JOs are demoralized.

HMS Defiant said...

I saw tyrants but in 27 years I never worked for one. On the ships with tyrants the morale totally collapsed and back in the 80s that meant that multiple personnel checked into the psych ward at the same time at Balboa. The TYCOM sent spies to find out what was going on. When the morale collapsed the ship continously failed to sail and/or meet underway obligations and failed inspections.

I had a couple of poor leaders as COs but none were actively evil.

Anonymous said...

When I quickly skimmed the title and the first sentence ("Sailors in the islands are getting mighty restless."), I was convinced this article was written about the current CO of NIOC Hawaii. Imagine my surprise when I realized this was an article from 1908. I guess tyrants and detestable leadership survive the test of time.

Anonymous said...

I did; went through 5 OPS Bosses in a period of 1 year because of a tyrant still remember his name although I wont write it.
Had another CO same Ship that busted electronics, assualted 5 junior enlisted guys while he was drunk. Result made 1 star 2 years later. Same CO once held the entire duty section onboard the following day after a 6 week underway because he felt the pier was dirty. Didn't leave that day till after 1600. Had to go out and scrub the pier in Norfolk with Soap, Water and scrub brushes to meet his standard. People wonder why I hate airdales so much I just tell them some of these stories and they understand.
Life is much better now then back in those days less tyrants around although a few do still exist.

OPS Tech LDO

Anonymous said...

Anon (October 9, 2013 at 12:31 AM), report your concerns to the IG. Anybody can cmplain but how many of us do something about it?

Anonymous said...

Anon (October 8, 2013 at 3:24 PM), are you talking about CAPT Kershaw at NIOC HI?

Anonymous said...

We've been "asked" not to talk about it.

Anonymous said...

Anon (October 9, 2013 at 6:27 PM): Keep our core values of Honor, Courage, and Commitment in mind. If things are that bad, someone needs to talk about it. There are 1700 Sailors potentially being impacted.....

Anonymous said...

How loyal must I be? Two words: Holly Graf. She should have been strung up from the nearest yardarm, but she commanded not one, but two ships. She destroyed the attitude of a shipmate whose morale I considered to be unbreakable. He loved the Navy. Not anymore after his tour with Holly. I spoke with him shortly after he left the ship he was on with her. We didn't even talk about his tour, but disappointment in the Navy was in every word he spoke. Makes my blood boil just to think of it.

No tyrant deserves loyalty. If NIOC Hawaii is acting like a tyrant, do the right thing and bring the cockroach into the light of day. Thousands of Sailors will thank you.

Anonymous said...

IG currently on furlough. This may take awhile.

Anonymous said...

Sir,

We have lost confidence in your ability to lead. We are advising your seniors of our findings.

Your Sailors.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous sniping is the lowest form of professionalism. Utilize the CoC or the triad's open door policy. Otherwise, you disgrace the service and the command. V/R CDR Bandy

Anonymous said...

XO,

Hard to use your open door when you are as much of the problem as the CO. Our DH doesn't even want to approach you. We are seeking outside help. If you and the CO are the example of leadership in the Navy, many of us will find something else to do.

You know me. I'm one of your JOs. I'd mention my name but I don't need the added grief.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ October 13, 2013 at 9:20 AM,

I concur with the XO. If you have issues, take it up with your chain of command or the IG. The CO has a boss...take it up with his boss. You do NOT need to suffer through a hostile work environment but you also don't need to air your dirty laundry yet do nothing about it. Show some leadership (which you claim your CO and XO are not) and support your Chiefs and Sailors...we'd appreciate it.

HMS Defiant said...

I don't know. When I went through LMET and various other mandatory leadership crap schools we were always taught by examples. Sometimes they'd toss out some of the good leadership styles and sea stories but mostly we got the bad/crappy leadership styles. Got that at SWOS, department head school, War College, and the various little seminars throughout.
So go ahead young officer. Let us hear of your woes. If the leaders who feel that they are the target of your scorn are true to themselves they'll see themselves and it will bring them up short. If they are crappy officers they won't. In my experience, a leader either does it or does not and you really cannot teach the one's that don't get it. They have to be weeded out by hand.

Anonymous said...

Here's hoping Captain K and XO Bandy are weeded out by hand.

Anonymous said...

All i can say is wow - its always someone else's fault, WHY? I was in the enlisted ranks and now the officer ranks. When I was in the goat locker no matter how good or bad an officer was everyone said the offier sucked, I used to ask what are you doing to change it, besides sitting in the mess bitching, the bitching then carried over to the JO's who the CHIEF's are supposed to train, change. If a leader gives a task there should not be an issue. The wardroom same attitude all CO's are idiots and XO's, and I was a previous one who was not well liked because I held people accountable. I remember telling people to field day and when I walked around after they the CHIEF's who monitored the field day said it was completed the same pieces of gum and dust was under the gear and around the room, I was told, we did it but not to your standard - WTH. It goes both ways. JO' are reflection of their CHIEF's and Senior Officers are a reflection of the ability of the workforce to complete tasks. If the assigned task is not completed the CO has the right to be upset and the XO will get hammered and so on - down hill. Same in business you don't do a job to a certain standard you get sent home, the navy we move you on.

mike said...

Comments are now closed on this topic.

Anonymous said...

Just caught wind of this page. All I can say, is Wow. There was a time when Junior Officers did not take to the internet to air their grievances. Remember, someday you too may be in command. How will you react when you find out that one of your officers is slamming you in a public forum? This is the last place you should be complaining.

You should be ashamed of yourselves for naming names and commands on this forum. It is an open forum, and as such, will do nothing but give the Navy Times more fodder.

You want loyalty from the Commanding Officer? If you are an Officer, then you should think back to your training, and realize you don't air the command's dirty laundry in public. If you are enlisted, speak to your Command Master Chief before running your mouth here. Doing otherwise only perpetuates the problem of loyalty.

I'm an Active Duty Chief Petty Officer and I was taught, and firmly believe, that in order to support your Chain of command, you keep these comments to yourself. If you need to address them, you take the proper action. From my 19 years of experience, internet trolling is not a proper course of action.
You wanna know my opinion of the leadership at NIOC Hawaii? Too bad. The entire internet audience is not privy to my opinion.

Get with it, and realize that military bearing extends to the Interweb as well.

If you would like to address this post with me, you can catch me at the FRA on Friday afternoons.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 7:13

Get with the times bub. And chief, I don't give a damn about your opinion of NIOC Hawaii.

Anonymous said...

Not appropriate place to blast the command.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ October 23, 2013 at 1:27 AM

When a CO behaves like this, it becomes a free for all. When you see the rules of order and discipline ignored at the highest level, those at the lower levels take their cue from that and misbehave accordingly.

Anonymous said...

Thought topic was closed?

Bottom line is this:
1 - attempt to remedy at lowest level
2 - should 1 fail, escalate to command level and address there
3 - should 1 and 2 fail and you feel strongly that you are correct in your assertion that your leadership is flawed or failing in some way, then you escalate to formal mechanisms (e.g. IG)

Complaining privatley or publicly, or even anonymously on a web site such as this won't remedy the problem. Do something instead of talking about the need to do something. Commands get IG complaints, that is why the IG is there, and either they find an issue and assist in addressing or they don't and your complaint was invalid. Either way you need to move on by acting or letting it go.

mike said...

Anon @ October 24, 2013 at 7:33 AM

I reopened it on popular demand.

I have deleted prior comments of anonymous contributors calling Captain Kershaw various profane names.

Anonymous said...

Your closing the topic was the right move. It was time to end the postings and hope the formal process would be started.

Ultimately, it's your blog site so you can do with it as you please regarding a topic being kept closed or reopened, and the comments that you post.

Although I wasn't asked, I offer that the second sentence in your 0800 post wasn't necessary. There's no value-added by reporting that anonymous contributers were deleted because they were calling Kershaw various profane names.

mike said...

All,

Please ignore the second sentence of my 24 October 0800AM post. It was unnecessary according to an anonymous commenter.

Anonymous said...

Weakened trust. You nailed it, Mike.

Joe Sullivan, CTIC(SS) (retired) said...

As always, it seems, it's easy to bitch and complain with the "anonymous" tag, especially in an open blog. Would all of you out there blast this CO by name if you had to put your real name down? I think we know the answer to that, don't we. If he's a problem, then take the proper steps to get it corrected, whatever those steps are. If you're afraid of repercussions, you might be best advised to not comment at all. At least CDR Bandy had the fortitude to sign his comments. And by saying you're one of the JOs out there, all you've accomplished is to put a target on all of the JOs backs. Nice job, shipmate. I would have loved to have you in my Chief's Mess. It would have only happened once, I can guarantee that. Bottom line: if you're courageous enough to write these comments, have the guts to take ownership of it.

Anonymous said...

The entire wardroom is well aware of this blog and the comments, yet the CoC has yet to publicly address it. There is a reason most Department Heads requested early transfer. Most JO's are doing the same, or choosing to get out of the Navy all together. Many high ranking and well respected members of the retired and active duty communities have been given details about what is going on with this command's upper leadership. Every one of them replies that the situation is incredibly serious and calls for a formal IG complaint. The problem is nobody in the wardroom is willing to go down that path for fear of reprisal.

Anonymous said...

The decision by wardroom members not to act speaks for itself.

Anonymous said...

As a recently retired officer, and prior Senior Chief, I would like to thank the two chiefs (Anon @ October 22, 2013 at 7:13 PM & Joe Sullivan @ October 26, 2013 at 2:14 PM) for providing their insight.
However, I think your attention would be better directed at the mess that is the mess.
I'm sure that between an active duty chief who holds down a bar stool at the FRA on Friday afternoons, and an internet tough-guy "I" brancher, you're more than capable.