Musings, leadership tidbits and quotes posted by a retired Navy Captain (really just a high performing 2nd Class Petty Officer) who hung up his uniform a bit too early. He still wears his Navy service on his sleeve. He needs to get over that. "ADVANCE WARNING - NO ORIGINAL THOUGHT!" A "self-appointed" lead EVANGELIST for the "cryptologic community". Keeping CRYPTOLOGY alive-one day and Sailor at a time. 2015 is 80th Anniversary of the Naval Security Group.
Sunday, November 21, 2010
Do you know this guy?
He walks with the Admirals, yet keeps the Sailor's touch.
I have heard a lot of discussion lately regarding the role of the CMC in the Navy. On the enlisted side, I have heard Master Chiefs question whether the CMC is a worthwhile position. On the Officer side, I have heard Officers belittle the counsel a Master Chief may offer. No matter what your position, I think it is a worthy discussion. Master Chiefs play an incredibly important role in our Navy and are often held as accountable in the success or failure of their command as the CO and XO.
You can't have a great command without a great Master Chief. A good command, sure. But not a great one. The CO/XO/CMC have to be in synch for a command to get to the next level.
"On the Officer side, I have heard Officers belittle the counsel a Master Chief may offer..."
Well this may because you can't tell a JO anything and a CDR or CAPT that doesn't realize the worth of the CPO Mess will fail...JOs think that because they have a degree they are somehow superior to enlisted...however JOs fail to realize that the experience a MCPO has gained over 20-30 years of service cannot be giving through osmoses.
Degrees have little worth other than a decoration on a wall, unless it is combined with experience.
1. The origin of the command master chief predates even having master chiefs (1958). It comes from the role and prestige of the submarine Chief of the Boat, the COB. Creation of the CMC is based in an attempt to bring successful submarine ways into the main Navy.
2. The success of that effort is as dependent on command receptivity as it is on the character of the CMC herself.
Many years ago as a brandy-new ensign, I was the only submarine-qualified officer in the commissioning wardroom of a CG. The captain-to-be called me aside one day to discuss emulating the submarine COB approach to command leadership by redesignating what would have been the Chief Master-At-Arms as "Chief of the Ship." That's what he did when the ship went into commission.
It was miserable failure, part because the Master Chief Boatswain Mate in the job was unable to understand the job, but more because his chain of command couldn't either. He had no power with the captain, the XO, the wardroom, or even his fellow chiefs.
We've moved downstream from that, but even now the effectiveness of a command's CMC is still potentially constrained when the command or its skipper are unwilling to turn loose the CMC to do what submarine COBs have always done: represent the command to the crew and the crew to the command.
I think the Senior Enlisted can offer valuable insight and can truly make or break a command. Unfortunately, I've seen too many Chiefs these days more than happy to wear the uniform but not accept the responsibility.
While it's easy to take swipes at JOs, their enthusiasm shouldn't be taken for granted.
As a senior O6 said to me once, "If you are having a bad day just make some rounds and talk with the Division Officers. Your outlook will be refreshed."
Having been one of those COB's on a Submarine for 6 deterrent patrols I found it very gratifying that the Captain and the Executive Officer, both on a number of occasions, would take my advice on problems that evolved , they asked for my advice and this was a pleasant experience for me. In the 3 years that I spent onboard that Submarine we ended up with only 2 mast cases and my advice to the Captain, which he asked for, was followed in each of those cases.
The Captain and the Executive Officer were probably very aware of a number of problems that I solved myself without any non-judicial action taking place. It was not within the UCMJ that I operated when it came to taking care of problems, that would normally have been resolved by the UCMJ. I actually felt that as long as I was allowed to handle things in my own way and the Captain and Executive Officer were not plagued by my decisions, then what I was doing was assisting our administrative staff of the Boat.
The Captain of this Submarine (Commander Larry Vogt) made it readily apparent to me at the termination of each patrol period that he was satisfied with the efforts I extended to assist in the Submarines mission, and he never failed to thank me for, as he would say, "Making this another successful patrol".
As you said Rubber Ducky the endeavor of the COB was" to represent the command to the crew and the crew to the command". I am happy to think that I performed in my function as COB and did those very things that you stated.
When you have a Triad (this seems to be the way the Navy is going) it makes the CPO Mess obsolete.
CMC's now a days seem to spend way to much time in the Ward room...
I have read many an article from the MCPON, he seems to be very articulate... Lets hope he puts he words into action, so far that does not seem to be the case.
The MCPON?
ReplyDeleteanon 7:11
ReplyDeleteRight you are.
I have heard a lot of discussion lately regarding the role of the CMC in the Navy. On the enlisted side, I have heard Master Chiefs question whether the CMC is a worthwhile position. On the Officer side, I have heard Officers belittle the counsel a Master Chief may offer. No matter what your position, I think it is a worthy discussion. Master Chiefs play an incredibly important role in our Navy and are often held as accountable in the success or failure of their command as the CO and XO.
ReplyDeleteHope the same is true with each Force and Fleet Master Chief.
ReplyDeleteYou can't have a great command without a great Master Chief. A good command, sure. But not a great one. The CO/XO/CMC have to be in synch for a command to get to the next level.
ReplyDeleteanon 5:07pm said:
ReplyDelete"On the Officer side, I have heard Officers belittle the counsel a Master Chief may offer..."
Well this may because you can't tell a JO anything and a CDR or CAPT that doesn't realize the worth of the CPO Mess will fail...JOs think that because they have a degree they are somehow superior to enlisted...however JOs fail to realize that the experience a MCPO has gained over 20-30 years of service cannot be giving through osmoses.
Degrees have little worth other than a decoration on a wall, unless it is combined with experience.
Two points:
ReplyDelete1. The origin of the command master chief predates even having master chiefs (1958). It comes from the role and prestige of the submarine Chief of the Boat, the COB. Creation of the CMC is based in an attempt to bring successful submarine ways into the main Navy.
2. The success of that effort is as dependent on command receptivity as it is on the character of the CMC herself.
Many years ago as a brandy-new ensign, I was the only submarine-qualified officer in the commissioning wardroom of a CG. The captain-to-be called me aside one day to discuss emulating the submarine COB approach to command leadership by redesignating what would have been the Chief Master-At-Arms as "Chief of the Ship." That's what he did when the ship went into commission.
It was miserable failure, part because the Master Chief Boatswain Mate in the job was unable to understand the job, but more because his chain of command couldn't either. He had no power with the captain, the XO, the wardroom, or even his fellow chiefs.
We've moved downstream from that, but even now the effectiveness of a command's CMC is still potentially constrained when the command or its skipper are unwilling to turn loose the CMC to do what submarine COBs have always done: represent the command to the crew and the crew to the command.
I think the Senior Enlisted can offer valuable insight and can truly make or break a command. Unfortunately, I've seen too many Chiefs these days more than happy to wear the uniform but not accept the responsibility.
ReplyDeleteWhile it's easy to take swipes at JOs, their enthusiasm shouldn't be taken for granted.
As a senior O6 said to me once, "If you are having a bad day just make some rounds and talk with the Division Officers. Your outlook will be refreshed."
Rubber Ducky,
ReplyDeleteHaving been one of those COB's on a Submarine for 6 deterrent patrols I found it very gratifying that the Captain and the Executive Officer, both on a number of occasions, would take my advice on problems that evolved , they asked for my advice and this was a pleasant experience for me. In the 3 years that I spent onboard that Submarine we ended up with only 2 mast cases and my advice to the Captain, which he asked for, was followed in each of those cases.
The Captain and the Executive Officer were probably very aware of a number of problems that I solved myself without any non-judicial action taking place. It was not within the UCMJ that I operated when it came to taking care of problems, that would normally have been resolved by the UCMJ. I actually felt that as long as I was allowed to handle things in my own way and the Captain and Executive Officer were not plagued by my decisions, then what I was doing was assisting our administrative staff of the Boat.
The Captain of this Submarine (Commander Larry Vogt) made it readily apparent to me at the termination of each patrol period that he was satisfied with the efforts I extended to assist in the Submarines mission, and he never failed to thank me for, as he would say, "Making this another successful patrol".
As you said Rubber Ducky the endeavor of the COB was" to represent the command to the crew and the crew to the command". I am happy to think that I performed in my function as COB and did those very things that you stated.
Very Respectfully,
Navyman834
If you doubt the need for a CMC, work for a while in a large corporate bureaucracy. You'll miss it when you don't have it.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have a Triad (this seems to be the way the Navy is going) it makes the CPO Mess obsolete.
ReplyDeleteCMC's now a days seem to spend way to much time in the Ward room...
I have read many an article from the MCPON, he seems to be very articulate... Lets hope he puts he words into action, so far that does not seem to be the case.