The CNO has approved the Information Dominance Corps Warfare program and insignia for Officer and Enlisted personnel (see attached). The CNO specifically designated the Information Dominance Corps a Warfare specialty. This recognition of the importance of information/ intelligence is a major acknowledgement of the professional skills and capabilities that members of our Corps bring to the fight.Members of the IDC will now be authorized to wear this new warfare insignia after successful completion of the warfare qualification requirements outlined in a forthcoming PQS/OPNAV Instruction. The new insignia is expected to be available in August 2010.
We are also moving forward with efforts to consolidate all of the IDC officer communities under a single 18XX series of designators enabling further synergy across the communities and establishing a common designator for cross-detailing assignments. The proposed new numbering scheme is as follows:
1800 - Meteorology/OceanographyThe approval of these new warfare insignias is a significant and historic milestone for all of us. I hope you share CNO's and my enthusiasm about clearly establishing Information Dominance as a key warfighting capability of the U.S. Navy.
1810 - Information Warfare
1820 - Information Professional
1830 - Intelligence
1840 - Cyber Warfare Engineer
1850 - Any IDC qualified officer billet
VR DJD (VADM Jack Dorsett)
What a joke.
ReplyDeleteGee, what an impressive insignia. I'm sure the SWOs and Aviators will be quite impressed.
ReplyDeleteAnother "warfare" pin? We are turning into the Air Farce!
ReplyDeleteLegitimizing the IDC pins will, no doubt, be an uphill battle. Many in the IDC community itself believe that a rating badge or designator is enough to prove we are information professionals, trained and ready to make a difference. If the addition of a community-specific qualification, in a nascent warfare area, seems frivolous to those of us within community, outside the IDC it can only be worse. I suspect that communicating why this pin is important and matters now will be a challenge for the IDC leadership.
ReplyDeleteThe medical folks have one and it's always been viewed as worthless. Why don't we give it a chance and see what the leadership says about it before slamming it? With the cross detailing with the new IDC, a PQS/JQR sounds like a needed thing to ensure folks are qualified/knowledgeable in information dominance.
ReplyDeleteUninspired. How 'bout we have a big, brass
ReplyDeletestylized BZZZZZT!! over our ribbons to indicate all manner of eWar?
I like the (never authorized) DIRSUP pin better - aircrew wing on one side, dolphin on the other, and a surface ship head on in the middle. I always wanted to have one made in Hong Kong (or some such place)and see how long I could wear it! Seriously, we don't need a pin, we need professionalism, not gained by completing a PQS, but by knowing more about all aspects of our field than anyone else.
ReplyDeleteAs much as they gundeck the warfare pins now a days...they all are just chest candy; worthless!
ReplyDeleteThe day they made warfare pins mandatory for advance it ruined the programs...plus you have COs saying "everyone will have a pin!" That does not nothing but breed a substandard screening process
The only true warfare pin left are the submariners...
Yes submariners....and that pin is mandatory.
ReplyDeleteLCDR Bob Morrison said..."we don't need a pin, we need professionalism"
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't feel it is a lack of professionalism that is our problem. It is a lack of desire.
From the viewpoint of "traditional" afloat cryptology the desire to equip, man, train, and provide actual tactical I&W is not the focus like it was a couple of decades ago when I started out. Equip, sure, we have ever-more capable systems. Manpower management is (and no offense to ADM Clark who decided training was the problem) our Achilles heel. School-house training is sub-par at best. Too deep were the cuts to save some money.
But the biggest hit we have taken as a community is getting away from our roots. Our job afloat "ain't" sexy enough for the modern world. To that end the focus has shifted (and has been for years) away from doing what was our bread and butter, to Grey Poupon of the newest mission Cyber Warfare.
The desire to do what is new, despite the fact the old is still there, will in the end be the proverbial death of what was the CT ratings.
It only takes a TAO and worse a CO, a few times of negative input from the CT's and they remove us from the tactical decision chain.
Just my opinion.
Senior
Oh and LCDR Morrison, I forgot to mention, you are correct. We don't need a pin.
ReplyDeleteThis has been Mad Jack's goal for eons. I think he despises the SWO pin he wears.
ReplyDeleteAs a lower enlisted CT, forward deployed in Baghdad, I look forward to wearing a warfare pin. I'm in a rate that doesn't always have a place on ships or planes or subs, we often feel we're not part of the "real Navy". I would like to wear something that shows I contribute even if I sit in my windowless office in the U.S. for my entire career.
ReplyDeleteThe PQS/PQP for intel is tough...more than most pins out there. I think it will help make a better rounded officer when it comes to intel/IDC
ReplyDeleteThe PQS/PQP for intel is tough...more than most pins out there. I think it will help make a better rounded officer when it comes to intel/IDC
ReplyDeleteTo the lower enlisted CT in Baghdad:
ReplyDeleteShipmate, thank you for your service - you definitely deserve a warfare pin...this one isn't it. It should be something to recognize your combat service, perhaps something like EXW, not a stinking piece of staff weenie metal.
To the individual who said PQS/PQP for intel is tough...more than most pins out there.: I'd agree when compared to the Supply Corps insignia, perhaps a few others, but it's nothing compared to being qualified in submarines, diving, or perhaps even surface warfare. None compare to the sacrifices of our Naval Special Warfare brethen. The proof of professional qualification and the culmination of our profession stems from superior leadership and performance in combat etc. This qualification is neither.
Interesting, but unsurprising observations. I'm quite sure there's an ample shortage of 'professionalism' in almost every rating/community. That having been said, I'm also certain that there would be more griping if DON decided to do away with chest candy altogether.
ReplyDeleteOnly a fool would have anything but the highest regard for our Navy SpecOps and Submariner forces. Still, I would remind all that as telecom and computing technologies advance in complexity, and as warfighting forces in the field come to depend even more upon those technologies, the skills to secure and defending them against overt attack by hostile agents are not to be regarded as mere 'clerk work'. One need only look to the wisdom of unencrypted Predator video on the evening news to realize that.
DON has stood up the 10th Fleet as a warfighting command with a Cyberdefense / Cyberwarfighting mission. IMO, this insignia demonstrates DON's recognition of the relevance of this community to that particular mission, and the demonstrated skills necessary to prosecute that mission.
Easy enough to ridicule service members who aren't Individual Augmentees deployed as "Bulletcatchers". But I suspect it's time for some to realize that some of the 'New Battle Lines' aren't exclusively oCONUS, either.
This pin is meant to signify that what the IDC provides to the Navy is equally important as the Submarine, Surface, Air, Expeditionary and Special Warfare communities.
ReplyDeleteWhat most people fail to realize is that Intel drives Ops...not the other way around. So without the IDC and it's inputs to the NAvy as a whole, we'd all be floating around doing donuts in the North Atlantic.
That being said, most people who rate this new badge will have to fight an uphill battle with folks from other communities to be accepted as peers, more so then those of us without pins or the opportunity to get one, myself being one. Granted that when the EXW pin came out, there were a lot of the same arguments from the other communities.
That's just my two bits worth.
Most comments here are made by those who have not or will not be required to complete this PQS/PQP. It is tough, extensive and even tougher to find subject matter experts who can even teach the broad range of subjects much less sign off on them. I recommend completing this PQS before passing judgements. Respectfully, no, we certainly dont need a pin to do our jobs and there is no lack of desire on our part in intel to do anything but our very best. Unfortunelty nothing happens unless there is information and IW is now a very valid offense/defense warfare of its own. I also dont think we care if a SWO or Aviator likes it or not. As mentioned information and intelligence drive the fight, not the other way around. I have already been told I know about these subjects and naval warfare than my "grandfathered" senior officers. We also have two PQS to get through on this, not just one. Regardless, its a reality and everyone has to accept it. No one has to wear it, but I certainly will with pride. CO's are saying everyone will be warfare qualified, I dont see the problem you have with that. It increases our readiness. I know Intel offivers who got a SWO pin, does that lessen the pin because they got it and dont use it?Complaining and running down things have never been a productive means of accomplishing anything and that is what I see here. Again, complete the PQS for Intel and IDCW and then tell us how you feel and that you wont wear it.
ReplyDeleteTo all the IDC bashers:
ReplyDeleteYou all seem to fail in understanding the importance of information warfare. Obviously, most of you are not in the rates that qualify. It's like "the cherry on top". Take a carrier for instance ...with engineers, OS's, LS's, and BM's. That's your basic ship's company. Being a CTR2(SW/AW) myself, I know that without IT's, IS's, and CT's, that ship wouldn't last half a battle. Information Warfare is absolutely essential to the fight. We are in a brand new age my friends. Electronic warfare has become such a big part in our nations defense. How in world do you feel like subsurface warfare and information warfare dont deserve the same respect? They're underwater and we're locked in caves. Sounds pretty close to me. If you're an EN, how much could you possibly know about what information I provide to the fight? I encourage you all to take the time and learn what information warfare is all about. That's what this PQS does. It's open to all ratings who want to know more. I'm not necessarily saying that it deserves a "warfare pin", but it does deserve the same respect.
SW/AW/SS/SG/IDW
That's all it should be.
To all,
ReplyDeleteThere is great value in the discussion and understanding of both sides. Keep it up. I appreciate it.
"The proof of professional qualification and the culmination of our profession stems from superior leadership and performance in combat etc. This qualification is neither."
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see any CO go underway without us, and I hope you are joking with mentioning performance in combat being a dismissive point in this discussion. We train for combat situations, specifically ASMD PPR's and other CM's that can't be disclosed on this site. When S--- even looks like it might hit the fan, CO's, TAO's and other BWC's look to us.
I don't see how our SME being refined by this PQS is anything but a positive step for the fleet.
V/r
CTT2
This is just another useless "warfare" pin. EAWS and ESWS have also become gimme pins. There are so many E-3s walking around with two warfare pins but don't know jack about either. They study the gouge and get a board that is chaired by others with the same lack of knowledge. It used to be a big deal to be dual warfare qualed, now it just means you walked around with your PQS for long enough. Utterly useless.
ReplyDeleteOkay enough already with the "only true warfarepin are the "dolphins" blah, blah, blah,. I've done both the surface pin and AVIATOR wings and spent enough time riding subs to know that the EOOW part of the pin is the hardest part. Try 2-3 years of constantly being graded on everything you do its called FLIGHT SCHOOL and that just to get to your actual fleet aircraft where you are graded everyday of your life and every flight could be your last if you screw up. Anybody can say "Diving Officer make your depth blah blah blah..."
ReplyDeleteTo the person bashing subs saying that the hardest part is EOOW:
ReplyDeleteIf you have been on subs enough to know that is the hardest part then you also may understand the importance of the other quals required to become a submarine qualified officer. I have had quality leadership from the officers on my ship and I believe that the qualification path while in some ways rediculous does exactly what was intended for it.
On the other end of the spectrum enlisted dolphins may be manditory but that doesnt mean its easy. I have seen many sailors fail out and even 4 in a row because they did not have what it takes. It is not a joke just because the CO's say we have to qualify.
In my job I am in a LAN division on-board my ship and I do not have a IT rating. My division are the tech guys to goto however nothing distiguishes me against the other men of my rating. I welcome a way to stand out and show the submarine fleet I am more then my source rating. This pin will not be easy for submarine sailors to get I will probably end up going to another base to get it but I will wear it with pride. Sometimes things change, dont be afraid of them.
V/R,
MT3/SS
Truth be told no pin is a necessary pin. The SS/SW/AW etc.. after you name is just there to show you have displayed a prerquisit level of knowledge about a given platform. Would you be any less knowledgable about your boat if you took the SS pin from your poopy suite? The IDC pin is just anouther in line of recognition of a given profession. To deminish this pin goes in line with deminishing the CB, combat crewmen, and other pins "earned". I challenge you to review the PQS (both) that you see that young Sailor working through befor issueing judgement. With that being said, most of the folks you see working through this process are already qualified SS, SW, AW, etc.. These Sailors are riding your ships, boats, and aircraft and doing so with success.
ReplyDeleteWho cares what they do really...is making this pin gonna make anyone do there job worse...if you've taken the time to post on here how much of a waste of time it will be, well you've just wasted your time by posting that....no one cares really what the opinions are, they will do what they want. Whether you think its useless or not, it's happening, no since wasting time insulting it....
ReplyDeleteAs a CTRSA, this pin is my first stance to even get some respect, which i shouldnt need a pin to do, but when i watch the eyes look for a pin and then dismiss what i say because i dont have one even though i am a qual'd Subject Matter Expect already, a pin will help a lot. I know plenty of us junior CT's who want to get the ship duty, want to get the SW/AW/SS, but got sent to NIOC to help those of other rates keep the ship safe so they can get thoses quals. I know im gonna be torn into when i finally do get to a ship because of being a E4 or E5 with no sea time, but nature of the beast, we will all adapt and overcome.
ReplyDelete"I would like to wear something that shows I contribute even if I sit in my windowless office in the U.S. for my entire career."
ReplyDeleteYou do. It's called a uniform.
The Army's show-off pin is their CIB ..the Combat Infantryman Pin. The Navy/Marine Corps equivalent is the Combat Action Ribbon. Dolphins and the old NAC pins were THE quals for enlisted to achieve. Long retired before the current wave of "have to have for advancement" pins, I look at the CT Sailors and Marines who have a CAR, NAC or Dolphins with the same respect you give an Army soldier with a CIB. Anything less isn't "warfare" to me.
ReplyDelete